if (mirc forums == #ircv3) { return NAZIS }

16(18/Feb/2021 20:37:31.315) ● ⫷04@jwheare⫸ khaled and i email back and forth from time to time
16(18/Feb/2021 20:38:24.036) ● ⫷04@jwheare⫸ i suspect what you're coming up against is less "i don't care about the spec" and more "i have a long standing client with a lot of of technical debt, things have worked very well for a long time, and changing things to be correct is harder than you might think"
16(18/Feb/2021 20:40:24.486) ● ⫷Herringway⫸ as a former user of the mirc scripting language I can confirm the technical debt
16(18/Feb/2021 20:40:41.856) ● ⫷jess⫸ i think i used mirc for 5 seconds many years ago
16(18/Feb/2021 20:42:55.905) ● ⫷04@jwheare⫸ there's clearly an element of spec misunderstanding too, but i don't think it's hostile
16(18/Feb/2021 20:42:59.509) ● ⫷04@jwheare⫸ or deliberate
25(18/Feb/2021 20:43:59.596) ● Joins: 45✔ zaherdirkey (~zaherdirk4@37.48.186.35)
16(18/Feb/2021 20:45:18.468) ● ⫷04@jwheare⫸ i
16(18/Feb/2021 20:45:36.134) ● ⫷04@jwheare⫸ i'd be happy to talk to him about it, but that post is a bit old now
16(18/Feb/2021 20:45:43.676) ● ⫷launchd⫸ mIRC charges way too much for the product they give
16(18/Feb/2021 20:46:41.691) ● ⫷04@jwheare⫸ 20 bucks for a lifetime license is pretty low
16(18/Feb/2021 20:46:48.262) ● ⫷launchd⫸ and they also only support windows 🤮
16(18/Feb/2021 20:46:48.516) ● ⫷jess⫸ it's not that anymore
16(18/Feb/2021 20:46:58.562) ● ⫷jess⫸ licensing changed wee woo wee woo
16(18/Feb/2021 20:47:07.226) ● ⫷04@jwheare⫸ ah 3 years
16(18/Feb/2021 20:47:07.482) ● ⫷launchd⫸ jwheare: $0.00 is even better
16(18/Feb/2021 20:47:30.972) ● ⫷04@jwheare⫸ everyone wants a free lunch
16(18/Feb/2021 20:47:33.812) ● ⫷jess⫸ i dont really have qualm with projects that aren't free just for being not free
16(18/Feb/2021 20:47:41.508) ● ⫷launchd⫸ yeah
16(18/Feb/2021 20:48:02.995) ● ⫷launchd⫸ I mean, I work for a company that makes closed source software
21(18/Feb/2021 20:48:07.965) ● ⫷westor07westor⫸ just use AdiIRC that's the #1 IRC client on the world right now
16(18/Feb/2021 20:48:13.315) ● ⫷launchd⫸ I'm not the libre police or anything
16(18/Feb/2021 20:48:27.315) ● ⫷launchd⫸ yeah isn't that pretty much free mIRC?
16(18/Feb/2021 20:48:27.504) ● ⫷04@jwheare⫸ $0 has nothing to do with libre
16(18/Feb/2021 20:48:42.779) ● ⫷launchd⫸ well yeah
16(18/Feb/2021 20:49:57.564) ● ⫷launchd⫸ anyway, I just don't want to pay for my IRC client when I can get one for free
16(18/Feb/2021 20:50:05.752) ● ⫷launchd⫸ not to mention I don't use windows
21(18/Feb/2021 20:50:06.254) ● ⫷westor07westor⫸ mIRC has 3 years license for $20
21(18/Feb/2021 20:50:08.778) ● ⫷westor07westor⫸ Question: Will my registration work with newer versions of mIRC?
21(18/Feb/2021 20:50:08.779) ● ⫷westor07westor⫸ Answer: If you are a home user, your registration entitles you to three years of free updates to new versions of mIRC. If you are a business user, you will need to renew your licenses yearly at a discount.
21(18/Feb/2021 20:50:27.555) ● ⫷westor07westor⫸ sucks
16(18/Feb/2021 20:50:35.681) ● ⫷launchd⫸ what business still uses IRC tbh?
16(18/Feb/2021 20:50:46.802) ● ⫷launchd⫸ slack is so much more convenient for everyone to use
16(18/Feb/2021 20:51:42.033) ● ⫷kylef⫸ Is this constructive conversation about the IRC protocol? I feel like we're a bit off mission here.
16(18/Feb/2021 20:52:01.967) ● ⫷jess⫸ :+1: ^
16(18/Feb/2021 20:52:43.884) ● ⫷jess⫸ jwheare: anyway i think i was just angling at liking the idea of us as an entity being on good terms with khaled but i guess you and him being email buddies is already good
16(18/Feb/2021 20:53:13.421) ● ⫷jess⫸ and like "what if someone reached out to him!" but that's a bit moot :P
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21(18/Feb/2021 20:53:52.484) ● ⫷westor07westor⫸ at least there is someone that can communicate with him
21(18/Feb/2021 20:54:11.589) ● ⫷westor07westor⫸ must be 1 and only :P
16(18/Feb/2021 20:54:39.289) ● ⫷04@jwheare⫸ hardly, he's active on his forums
16(18/Feb/2021 20:54:51.403) ● ⫷04@jwheare⫸ but yeah, i've walked him through spec/v3 stuff before
16(18/Feb/2021 20:55:04.452) ● ⫷04@jwheare⫸ got stuff fixed, implemented etc
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21(18/Feb/2021 20:56:04.303) ● ⫷westor07westor⫸ probably because you use the e-mail method otherwise if you was posting anything on his forums you would be banned and your posts would be removed, sadly yes this is his politic
21(18/Feb/2021 20:56:19.796) ● ⫷westor07westor⫸ that happened almost in 10 people that i know
16(18/Feb/2021 21:02:04.879) ● ⫷jess⫸ let's try to continue to avoid deadend topics where we insult people or projects
16(18/Feb/2021 21:02:29.262) ● ⫷jess⫸ to quote a great movie, "we're all in this together"
25(18/Feb/2021 21:03:59.055) ● Joins: 45✔ alex11 (~alex114@bras-base-mtrlpq5302w-grc-29-76-67-214-137.dsl.bell.ca)
16(18/Feb/2021 21:10:01.267) ● ⫷justJanne⫸ 8811FFwestor: your comments are right now just like your realname: a bit unhelpful and annoying
16(18/Feb/2021 21:10:20.682) ● ⫷justJanne⫸ Please remain constructive :)
21(18/Feb/2021 21:10:36.335) ● ⫷westor07westor⫸ /ignore 07westor
21(18/Feb/2021 21:11:07.233) ● ⫷westor07westor⫸ also i wasn't even talking on you so stay idle
16(18/Feb/2021 21:11:09.747) ● ⫷jess⫸ that's not gonna fly dawg
16(18/Feb/2021 21:11:15.061) ● ⫷jess⫸ good vibes only
16(18/Feb/2021 21:11:50.487) ● ⫷jess⫸ better for all of us if we keep the outlook optimistic and don't waste time deriding people
23(18/Feb/2021 21:12:09.454) -ChanServ- Information on #ircv3:
23(18/Feb/2021 21:12:09.482) -ChanServ- Founder    : jwheare
23(18/Feb/2021 21:12:09.483) -ChanServ- Registered : Jan 26 21:05:40 2011 (10y 3w 4d ago)
23(18/Feb/2021 21:12:09.483) -ChanServ- Mode lock  : +ntC
23(18/Feb/2021 21:12:09.484) -ChanServ- Flags      : GUARD
23(18/Feb/2021 21:12:09.485) -ChanServ- *** End of Info ***
16(18/Feb/2021 21:12:26.811) ● ⫷justJanne⫸ 8811FFwestor: I won't even discuss such a comment.
16(18/Feb/2021 21:12:38.486) ● ⫷justJanne⫸ Regarding mIRC, I can fully understand their situation, it's a lot of effort to both handle backwards compatibility and new features at the same time. I've hit that issue often enough in quassel+droid
16(18/Feb/2021 21:13:22.297) ● ⫷justJanne⫸ Especially with their limited resources
21(18/Feb/2021 21:13:48.920) ● ⫷westor07westor⫸ there are some old mirc fans here that keeps using (a paid one ofc) version, but i just said what is happening on his forums my message was to jwheare
21(18/Feb/2021 21:14:48.600) ● ⫷westor07westor⫸ i don't see your point to break your idle and make a comment about me, but anyway i've learn to ignore these types of messages. peace!
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16(18/Feb/2021 21:15:15.119) ● ⫷june⫸ what an obtuse person
16(18/Feb/2021 21:16:04.370) ● ⫷jess⫸ comments like that also make the sitaution worse
16(18/Feb/2021 21:17:27.178) ● ⫷jess⫸ i just would like to avoid getting bogged down in potshots, whether factual or not, aimed at other projects. i don't think they're going to help us push forward ideas and specs within our group
21(18/Feb/2021 21:17:33.688) ● ⫷westor07westor⫸ see the june also broke his idle from june
27(18/Feb/2021 21:17:50.112) ● Quits: 4❌ mindlesstux (sid180724@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tsegsnxjiedwgboe) {Ping timeout: 246 seconds}
16(18/Feb/2021 21:17:57.926) ● ⫷jess⫸ we've got precious little time and energy that we can each expend on stuff we do here, and we don't need to spend it fighting :P
21(18/Feb/2021 21:18:04.917) ● ⫷westor07westor⫸ you couldn't wait 4 more months to talk? :P
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16(18/Feb/2021 21:19:17.017) ● ⫷june⫸ I'm not "his"
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16(18/Feb/2021 21:19:35.246) ● ⫷june⫸ or "the"...
21(18/Feb/2021 21:19:44.582) ● ⫷westor07westor⫸ oh sorry bot
21(18/Feb/2021 21:19:48.147) ● ⫷westor07westor⫸ misunderstood
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16(18/Feb/2021 21:21:26.207) ● ⫷jess⫸ justJanne: i do also understand how it ended up there, i also think a lot of the mIRC userbase are people that have been used to a very unmoving product for a very long time, so i'm always a bit (pleasantly) surprised by how much ircv3 stuff it supports
16(18/Feb/2021 21:22:36.374) ● ⫷justJanne⫸ 8811FFwestor: I hate to put on that hat, but as a member of the tech board, *please* stop. Thanks.
16(18/Feb/2021 21:22:40.876) ● ⫷june⫸ also paying for software is good. textual and palaver are both good paid irc clients
16(18/Feb/2021 21:22:53.232) ● ⫷justJanne⫸ Jess
16(18/Feb/2021 21:22:59.536) ● ⫷justJanne⫸ jess: the scripting is another issue
21(18/Feb/2021 21:23:01.670) ● ⫷westor07westor⫸ you started mate
21(18/Feb/2021 21:23:08.780) ● ⫷westor07westor⫸ thats the truth
16(18/Feb/2021 21:23:11.140) ● ⫷justJanne⫸ If you've got a scriptable client, you can't change internals easily
21(18/Feb/2021 21:23:12.219) ● ⫷westor07westor⫸ i won't continue btw
16(18/Feb/2021 21:24:17.266) ● ⫷Herringway⫸ I don't think it's unmoving at all. things like control codes and unicode saw much greater adoption on IRC thanks to mIRC implementing them, even if it wasn't the first to implement them
16(18/Feb/2021 21:25:15.922) ● ⫷justJanne⫸ It just can't move as agile and quickly as a new client might be able to. Bit that's fine
16(18/Feb/2021 21:25:20.549) ● ⫷justJanne⫸ *but
16(18/Feb/2021 21:25:55.008) ● ⫷jess⫸ justJanne: catalyst guidelines, dont pull rank unless you intend to utilise protocol level violence
16(18/Feb/2021 21:26:42.946) ● ⫷justJanne⫸ jess: I don't intend to utilise any violence :(
16(18/Feb/2021 21:27:45.421) ● ⫷justJanne⫸ generally said the whole issue with ossifying internals is part of why scripting in quassel has been happening so slowly, too. we don't have good internals, we'll have to clean them up before adding scripting or we're stuck forever
16(18/Feb/2021 21:27:51.564) ● ⫷jess⫸ Herringway: that's fair, i dont really use the client so it's a bit conjecture
16(18/Feb/2021 21:30:02.580) ● ⫷jess⫸ i tried to write msl once and i gave up
16(18/Feb/2021 21:32:26.186) ● ⫷Sadie⫸ mirc has been unfortunate lately given there's a mirc default alias that is just completely wrong and instead of fixing it khaled just blocked the error message inspircd sends so now no mirc users get invalid mode parameter messages
16(18/Feb/2021 21:32:31.404) ● ⫷june⫸ or just don't add scripting :)
16(18/Feb/2021 21:33:37.906) ● ⫷Herringway⫸ don't invent your own scripting language, at least
16(18/Feb/2021 21:34:23.401) ● ⫷june⫸ it's an anti-feature either way, but I know I'm in the minority on this
16(18/Feb/2021 21:35:49.956) ● ⫷justJanne⫸ adding scripting can be useful to add stuff like e.g. link titles/previews, or external notifications, or automated xdcc
16(18/Feb/2021 21:36:31.421) ● ⫷launchd⫸ i love weechat's python scripting
16(18/Feb/2021 21:40:42.459) ● ⫷jess⫸ i wouldn't be able to use a client that didn't support scripting
16(18/Feb/2021 21:40:49.058) ● ⫷jess⫸ but i do have quite unique needs
16(18/Feb/2021 21:41:36.044) ● ⫷jess⫸ weechat can't add things fast enough and some of it is too freenode-specific, etc.
16(18/Feb/2021 21:44:08.282) ● ⫷launchd⫸ I use scripting to handle my IRC push notifications
16(18/Feb/2021 21:51:17.446) ● ⫷jess⫸ we should standardise push notifications
16(18/Feb/2021 21:51:40.209) ● ⫷slingamn⫸ it's really hard :-(
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16(18/Feb/2021 21:52:42.425) ● ⫷slingamn⫸ the push primitive (on both ios and android) is a relationship between the user and an app, not between the user and a third-party remote service
16(18/Feb/2021 21:53:08.649) ● ⫷slingamn⫸ on android, you can work around this using Web Push (i.e., the browser app loans out its relationship to arbitrary websites)
16(18/Feb/2021 21:53:09.427) ● ⫷june⫸ just send an email when you get a notification, then the email server can send a notification ;)
16(18/Feb/2021 21:53:13.164) ● ⫷slingamn⫸ on ios there's no workaround
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16(18/Feb/2021 21:55:54.799) ● ⫷launchd⫸ the ios problem is the app store guidelines
16(18/Feb/2021 21:56:09.798) ● ⫷launchd⫸ too much of an opportunity to spam users
16(18/Feb/2021 21:57:25.755) ● ⫷Jobe⫸ or in simpler terms
16(18/Feb/2021 21:57:26.991) ● ⫷Jobe⫸ Apple
16(18/Feb/2021 21:57:51.983) ● ⫷launchd⫸ no!
16(18/Feb/2021 21:58:05.504) ● ⫷slingamn⫸ basically Apple's model of the app store is that apps are like websites, not like desktop apps
16(18/Feb/2021 21:58:34.727) ● ⫷slingamn⫸ so clearly every IRC network should get its own app, and then it can send push notifications /s
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16(18/Feb/2021 21:59:13.502) ● ⫷launchd⫸ but those apps can only run connections in the background for 10 minutes under ATS
33(18/Feb/2021 22:01:24.057) ● Nicks: 4❌ zaherdirkey__ 🢂 zaherdirkey (~zaherdirk4@37.48.191.173)
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29(18/Feb/2021 22:56:34.597) ● ChanServ sets mode: +o grawity
29(18/Feb/2021 22:56:38.731) ● grawity sets mode: +b $a:westor