-- // ihm

[9:59:33 AM] Angel [Ashen]: You there?
[10:09:51 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Yeah
[10:11:03 AM] Angel [Ashen]: I'm gonna try to keep this short because I know we're all really tired of dealing with stuff
[10:11:34 AM] Angel [Ashen]: I know you did it. I didn't want to remove you but had to, don't want many exceptions to the rule but
[10:11:41 AM] Angel [Ashen]: I can make an exception
[10:11:46 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Do you like staying with us?
[10:12:23 AM] Marx Cartoonee: After all that drama I'm not quite so sure anymore
[10:12:48 AM] Marx Cartoonee: That, and I wouldn't want to be an exception
[10:12:58 AM] Marx Cartoonee: I did what I did fully aware of the consequences
[10:13:20 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Yep, I know you did
[10:13:50 AM] Angel [Ashen]: I didn't really want it to get that out of hand. I probably shouldn't have talked at all about it directly in KD, but it happened
[10:14:18 AM] Angel [Ashen]: We were gonna gather opinions, chew on them, then talk to Gary, all three of us (me, cam, juush)
[10:14:46 AM] Angel [Ashen]: but one of them was always off or tired or gary was idle or something, so by the time we were ready, KD got deleted
[10:15:12 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Could've dealt with it more tactfully but eh
[10:15:45 AM] Angel [Ashen]: If you promise not to leak anymore logs of course I can let you in again, because I do like you
[10:16:01 AM] Angel [Ashen]: I'm sure you only did it because you thought it was right
[10:16:14 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Remember when I said it hits close to home?
[10:16:22 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Yeah
[10:16:29 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Yeah, I was in the same situation as he was
[10:16:37 AM] Marx Cartoonee: People talking behind my back
[10:16:40 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Acting two-faced
[10:16:54 AM] Marx Cartoonee: It wasn't a pleasant sight to revisit
[10:17:30 AM] Angel [Ashen]: If I may ask how exactly were Cam and Josh dealing with things while I was offline?
[10:17:53 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Can't say about Cam as I didn't see anything
[10:17:58 AM] Marx Cartoonee: As for Josh
[10:18:12 AM] Marx Cartoonee: I know what little I saw of him talking about his investigation
[10:18:17 AM] Marx Cartoonee: And what Gaz told me
[10:18:52 AM] Marx Cartoonee: When he confronted him about all the talking in the backroom
[10:18:55 AM] Marx Cartoonee: And was ignored at first
[10:18:58 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Lied to a second time
[10:19:05 AM] Marx Cartoonee: And the third time told he wasn't entitled to know
[10:19:10 AM] Angel [Ashen]: How did he lie?
[10:19:17 AM] Marx Cartoonee: You'd have to ask Gaz
[10:20:00 AM] Angel [Ashen]: We were honestly just having difficulty deciding how to deal with things, because we didn't necessarily want anyone to leave
[10:20:17 AM] Angel [Ashen]: That said, people throwing ultimatums out for the billionth time made it... more than difficult
[10:20:23 AM] Angel [Ashen]: lol
[10:20:24 AM] Marx Cartoonee: I wanted to stay as passive as possible, so I didn't give you my input when you asked me before
[10:20:32 AM] Marx Cartoonee: But if you still want it, I have a suggestion
[10:20:41 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Of course
[10:20:49 AM] Marx Cartoonee: KD is a group of friends, right?
[10:22:15 AM] Angel [Ashen]: You see, Gary threw that out a lot last night when he was talking in TNOC, and before you start, I'd just like to say that when you successfully annoy nearly everyone in the room and then exclude yourself numerous times, you don't really get to act like you're a part of it anymore
[10:22:28 AM] Angel [Ashen]: I'm not sure how else to word that, but I'm sure you get the point
[10:22:40 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Yeah, I get it, but that's not what I'm asking
[10:22:49 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Go on, then lol
[10:22:57 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Right, so as a group of friends
[10:23:10 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Wouldn't it make more sense to talk about things to eachother directly
[10:23:19 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Instead of going to backrooms
[10:23:37 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Making it seem like something more than it is
[10:23:43 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Like in this particular scenario
[10:23:49 AM] Marx Cartoonee: A lot of people wanted soda back
[10:23:57 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Gaz didn't
[10:24:08 AM] Angel [Ashen]: I wanted to speak to people individually and taking them into another room was the only way to do that
[10:24:09 AM] Marx Cartoonee: A reasonable approach would have been asking him first of all
[10:24:13 AM] Marx Cartoonee: If there was a way to work it out
[10:24:21 AM] Marx Cartoonee: If he'd be willing to agree to let her back in
[10:24:26 AM] Angel [Ashen]: We were going to ask
[10:24:35 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Room got bombed before we could
[10:24:47 AM] Marx Cartoonee: You were, yes, you made that clear enough
[10:24:50 AM] Marx Cartoonee: What I'm saying is
[10:24:57 AM] Marx Cartoonee: As a directly involved party in whatever happened
[10:25:04 AM] Marx Cartoonee: He should have been one of the first ones involved
[10:25:08 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Not the last
[10:25:22 AM] Marx Cartoonee: It was already apparent that people wanted her back
[10:25:44 AM] Angel [Ashen]: What I wanted to show him though was proof that nobody wanted anyone gone, either
[10:25:59 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Everyone thought it was dumb as Hell, on both sides
[10:26:32 AM] Marx Cartoonee: I'm not calling that into question
[10:26:44 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Since I never knew anyone's intentions
[10:26:47 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Just what I saw
[10:26:55 AM] Marx Cartoonee: And what I saw seemed horribly off
[10:27:08 AM] Angel [Ashen]: I'm sure it did
[10:27:19 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Though you know, they were the only ones to come to me
[10:27:27 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Through all of this Gary didn't say a single word to me
[10:27:41 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Even when I came back initially, he didn't say anything
[10:27:52 AM] Marx Cartoonee: He said he sent you a note, afaik
[10:28:29 AM] Angel [Ashen]: The first note he sent me, he told me he was banning her
[10:28:56 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Never asked, just stated he would, so I let it go
[10:29:27 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Figured things would work themselves out, and dearly hoped they would, because my life's been wicked busy and chaotic
[10:29:57 AM] Angel [Ashen]: We just moved again, this is like the seventh time we've moved in a year, lol
[10:30:05 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Sheesh
[10:30:58 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Anyway the next note he sent me, he mentioned that he didn't have his privs anymore, so I said I'd fix it
[10:31:08 AM] Angel [Ashen]: When I went to do so, it was already fixed
[10:31:10 AM] Angel [Ashen]: so
[10:31:44 AM] Angel [Ashen]: I think he just horribly misunderstood things, and the entire room paid the price
[10:32:25 AM] Angel [Ashen]: I responded to that note, not the other one, I never gave him permission to ban anyone
[10:32:46 AM] Angel [Ashen]: I think it's silly to ban for something that trivial that happened in devart of all places, but that's just my opinion
[10:33:46 AM] Marx Cartoonee: He said she shared something about his personal life, no?
[10:34:46 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Not really, from what he showed me. All I saw was something that could've very easily be seen as either a joke or a vague statement to people who didn't know about it
[10:35:06 AM] Angel [Ashen]: And if they did know about it, then I don't think any harm was done, because well... they already knew, you know?
[10:35:55 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Did he send any other notes?
[10:35:59 AM] Angel [Ashen]: No
[10:36:10 AM] Marx Cartoonee: I remember him saying he sent more
[10:36:18 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Let me see
[10:37:06 AM] Angel [Ashen]: He sent me some this month, shortly before I returned, more about the same situation
[10:37:25 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Man I can't even describe to you how speechless I was when I saw that shit was sitll going on
[10:37:43 AM] Marx Cartoonee: I can honestly imagine
[10:38:22 AM] Angel [Ashen]: The next note I got after those was from Cam and Josh, saying I was needed and that some sort of intervention was required
[10:38:59 AM] Marx Cartoonee: I just asked him
[10:39:06 AM] Marx Cartoonee: He says it wasn't vague
[10:39:12 AM] Marx Cartoonee: And how she went on about it
[10:39:20 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Do you have the logs still?
[10:39:30 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Well, you need to understand that he only showed me one line
[10:39:40 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Ah
[10:39:52 AM] Marx Cartoonee: See, that's what has me a bit worried now
[10:40:03 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Had he showed me more, I could've better understood
[10:40:08 AM] Angel [Ashen]: But he never did, even when I asked
[10:40:24 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Apparently he showed everyone the same thing, so they formed opinions based on that
[10:45:14 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Right, I found the snippet
[10:46:06 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Also, this is the note that Cam and Josh sent me
[10:46:11 AM] Angel [Ashen]:


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Wizard-Kgalm said the following:

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deviant-garde said the following:

Hey, Ang. I already checked what was in your inbox, just so I know what's there waiting for you so we can set the stage for this. Basically, what's happened is, Darsh has stirred up some shit that we all thought was settled and done with, involving Mandi/sodalicious.

Mandi was banned by Gaz after they had a falling out in #devart. He says he made a single joke about her looking older than she is, and she started endlessly making remarks about his life in front of everyone in retaliation, but Mandi claims that it happened much differently; that Gaz was being more antagonistic and she didn't say a lot of the things he claims. He's the only one who noted you about the situation despite objections being voiced by several other people, and I have no idea how much you were informed on the fallout that came from this.

After Darsh brought the situation up again and things got heated between her and a few other people (Gaz, Josh, me), no one in the room besides Gaz seemed to agree that Mandi should remain banned after so much time has passed over a situation that happened outside the room, and we've come to an impasse. If Mandi is unbanned, then Gaz wants to leave the room (which he stated in the very beginning to us before he told you he wanted to ban her) and if Mandi stays banned, Darsh wants to leave (which she already threatened to do before and appears to be doing right now).

Josh and I feel we should ban all three (Gaz, Darsh and Mandi) and force them to work something out in #SecretLab. They'll only be able to talk to the three of us there while we settle this, so nobody gets to say things in private to us (including complaining) regarding the intervention. The idea here is this: if they find a way to work things out with each other and peacefully coexist in the chatroom, all of them can come back; if any of them refuse to be reasonable, the others can be let back into KD and that particular person can stay out, being that chatting in there isn't important enough to them for them to work out their issues; if none of them want to work it out, they stay out of the room and stop stirring up drama over what should have been a trivial issue in the first place, making us mediate and investigate over a situation whose evidence was pure hearsay from the beginning.

We don't know when the opportunity to host this intervention will be, but Josh and I don't want to have to pick between friends here and the whole situation has gotten out of hand. Let either of us know when we can actually hammer this shit out so an ultimate decision can be made.
[10:48:11 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Josh and I feel we should ban all three (Gaz, Darsh and Mandi) and force them to work something out in #SecretLab. They'll only be able to talk to the three of us there while we settle this, so nobody gets to say things in private to us (including complaining) regarding the intervention.
[10:48:20 AM] Marx Cartoonee: I'm thinking even that might have worked out better
[10:50:02 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Probably, looking back
[10:50:58 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Anyway
[10:51:09 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Looking at what evidence Gaz had to offer
[10:51:17 AM] Marx Cartoonee: I can see that it might seem trivial to some
[10:51:26 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Whereas to others it might have some weight
[10:51:39 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Like to me, Gaz' joke about her age seemed harmless
[10:51:47 AM] Marx Cartoonee: While hers seemed more spiteful
[10:51:57 AM] Marx Cartoonee: (This is disregarding the claims that she went on about it)
[10:52:42 AM] Angel [Ashen]: My understanding is that he had called her the same thing before, and she told him to stop or something (don't quote me on this, I'm only recalling other words)
[10:52:55 AM] Angel [Ashen]: So upon doing it again she likely took it more personally
[10:53:17 AM] Angel [Ashen]: I can relate to both sides, shit like that's happened to all of us, I'm sure
[10:53:43 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Which is why I'm not quite "getting" why it's any different from anything else that happens
[10:54:35 AM] Angel [Ashen]: And I know he keeps saying that we should've only went to him for answers and that nobody else was involved so they don't matter etc. etc.
[10:54:51 AM] Angel [Ashen]: But when you ban someone in another room like that, you make it everyone's business, you know?
[10:55:22 AM] Angel [Ashen]: It's no longer a personal issue, you've involved whoever's in the other room you banned them in, this case being KD
[10:56:18 AM] Angel [Ashen]: So what we had to work with was a bunch of annoyed people who think it's stupid, and then two friends of ours who are both throwing out ultimatums forcing us to choose between them
[10:57:19 AM] Angel [Ashen]: I thought it was really unfair, when I laid those points out plainly before myself
[10:58:08 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Sure we could've dealt with it in many, many different ways, but in the end it never should've been ours to deal with
[11:02:26 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Is him being demoted in TNOC in any way relevant to all this?
[11:02:50 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Not really
[11:03:14 AM] Angel [Ashen]: It is a bit, but when I spoke to Lomby, he said he had been thinking of demoting Gary for over a week
[11:04:25 AM] Marx Cartoonee: So for different reasons then
[11:05:13 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Last night especially got me because Lomby didn't deserve the shit Gary was giving him
[11:05:30 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Sure Lomby's a bit... slow, shall I put it? But that doesn't make it okay
[11:06:01 AM] Angel [Ashen]: I'm glad we managed to get him off of Lomby and onto us
[11:06:22 AM] Angel [Ashen]: As soon as I saw what was happening I jumped right in. Otherwise I would've kept quiet and kept playing Skyrim
[11:10:25 AM] Angel [Ashen]: At first keeping Lomby around was more of a pet-status thing, but I've started to actually care to some degree. Going to Lomby with my beliefs about Gary deleting KD was more out of concern than spite
[11:11:17 AM] Angel [Ashen]: I know Gary got the wrong idea about it, and I just didn't have enough in me to address it properly
[11:13:16 AM] Angel [Ashen]: I'm sure you know this is not the first time there have been issues like this involving Gaz, and each time is more exhausting than the last
[11:13:30 AM] Marx Cartoonee: I don't know, actually
[11:13:53 AM] Angel [Ashen]: o:
[11:14:32 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Well there were several other times where he was having/started/whatever issues with other people like Dom and stuff like that
[11:14:44 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Oh
[11:14:49 AM] Marx Cartoonee: He told me about the Dom fights
[11:14:53 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Said it was petty shit
[11:14:56 AM] Angel [Ashen]: they didn't get blown out of proportion as far as this did but it was still worse each time
[11:15:04 AM] Marx Cartoonee: And usually ended with not a single fuck given
[11:15:54 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Yeah, no fucks from him, right? He seems to make quite an effort asserting that he doesn't give a fuck
[11:16:15 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Which in itself kind of conflicts with him not giving a fuck... but I disgress
[11:16:15 AM] Angel [Ashen]: lol
[11:16:20 AM] Angel [Ashen]: digress*
[11:20:02 AM] Angel [Ashen]: I was actually saying last night that I felt kind of sad that I didn't feel more when we were "speaking" with Gary in TNOC
[11:20:20 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Because so much had gone on before that I just felt tired
[11:21:40 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Anyway, you're free to make your decision. If you would like to stay with KD, of course I'll need you to promise me that you won't leak many more logs, but I assume that there won't be much to tell about, now, anyway
[11:21:50 AM] Angel [Ashen]: We're all sick of this and just want to go about our normal shit
[11:21:52 AM] Angel [Ashen]: lol
[11:22:10 AM] Marx Cartoonee: I'll appeal my ban when I feel I really want to
[11:22:18 AM] Marx Cartoonee: For now, I'm the guy that gets to talk to Gaz about this
[11:22:26 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Aight man
[11:22:33 AM] Angel [Ashen]: We still cool?
[11:22:51 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Last thing I want is to lose another friend lol
[11:23:04 AM] Angel [Ashen]: I know we're not super close or anything, but still
[11:23:38 AM] Marx Cartoonee: I'm not gonna swear revenge or put gipsy curses on any of you, don't worry
[11:23:46 AM] Angel [Ashen]: haha
[11:23:48 AM] Marx Cartoonee: Unless anyone was talking smack after I was booted
[11:23:52 AM] Marx Cartoonee: 8)
[11:24:03 AM] Angel [Ashen]: Nah, of course not
[11:24:17 AM] Marx Cartoonee: No curses, then