claude.ai chat showing deep kde plasma 6 knowledge

BvD

I'm trying to debug why an application running under linux, KDE plasma 6 does
not show in the system tray. How does this communication between an
application and the system tray work? DBUS?

Claude.ai

You're on the right track with mentioning D-Bus. The communication between
applications and the system tray in KDE Plasma (including version 6) indeed
involves D-Bus, but there are a few layers to consider. Let's break down how
this typically works:

  1. D-Bus Communication:
     * D-Bus is used for inter-process communication in Linux desktop environments, including KDE.
     * Applications can use D-Bus to register themselves with the system tray.
  2. Status Notifier Item:
     * KDE uses the Status Notifier specification, which is an improvement over the older XEmbed-based system tray.
     * Applications create a Status Notifier Item to appear in the system tray.
  3. Plasma's System Tray Widget:
     * The system tray in Plasma is actually a widget that listens for Status Notifier Items.
  4. Registration Process:
     * When an application wants to appear in the system tray, it typically: a. Creates a Status Notifier Item b. Registers this item on the session D-Bus c. Emits signals to notify about its presence and any changes
  5. Freedesktop.org Standards:
     * KDE follows freedesktop.org standards for many of these interactions, which allows for compatibility across different desktop environments.

Debugging Steps:

  1. Check D-Bus Registration:
     * Use ` qdbus` or ` dbus-monitor` to see if your application is registering correctly on D-Bus.
  2. Verify Status Notifier Item:
     * Ensure your application is creating and registering a Status Notifier Item correctly.
  3. Look for Error Messages:
     * Check the application's logs and KDE's logs for any error messages related to the system tray.
  4. Test with Other Applications:
     * See if other applications are appearing in the system tray to determine if it's a system-wide issue.
  5. Check Plasma Settings:
     * Ensure the system tray widget is present and configured to show your application type.
  6. Examine Application Code:
     * If you have access, review how the application is implementing its system tray functionality.
  7. Use Development Tools:
     * Tools like ` xprop` can help inspect X11 properties of windows, which might give clues about registration issues.

Common Issues:

  * Incorrect D-Bus implementation
  * Failure to create or register the Status Notifier Item
  * Plasma system tray widget configuration
  * Compatibility issues with the specific Plasma version

If you provide more details about the specific application and any error
messages you're seeing, I could offer more targeted advice for debugging this
issue.

BvD

I have a system where both owncloud and dropbox do not appear on the system
tray. On another system running the same plasma 6 version, both do appear just
fine. It looks like the issue is more global, maybe the way KDE is started?

Claude.ai

You're right to consider that this might be a more systemic issue rather than
specific to individual applications. Given that both Owncloud and Dropbox are
affected on one system but not on another with the same Plasma 6 version, here
are some areas to investigate:

  1. System Tray Widget Configuration:
     * Check if the System Tray widget is properly added to your panel and configured correctly.
     * Right-click on the panel > Edit Panel > Check if System Tray is present.
     * Click on the System Tray settings and ensure that "Status and Notifications" is enabled.
  2. KDE Startup and Environment:
     * Check if there are any differences in how KDE is started between the two systems.
     * Look at the contents of ~/.xinitrc, ~/.xsession, or /etc/kde/startupconfig files.
  3. D-Bus Session:
     * Verify that the D-Bus session is starting correctly:

` echo $DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS`

     * This should return a valid address. If it's empty, there might be an issue with D-Bus initialization.
  4. Status Notifier Watcher:
     * Check if the Status Notifier Watcher is running:


` qdbus org.kde.StatusNotifierWatcher`

     * If this doesn't return anything, the watcher might not be starting correctly.
  5. Plasma Config Files:
     * There might be a corrupt config file. Try renaming ~/.config/plasma-org.kde.plasma.desktop-appletsrc and restarting Plasma.
  6. XDG Autostart:
     * Check if there are any differences in the ~/.config/autostart directory between the two systems.
  7. System Logs:
     * Examine system logs for any relevant errors:


` journalctl -b | grep -i "system tray" journalctl -b | grep -i "statusnotifier"`

  8. Graphics and Compositor:
     * Ensure the compositor is running: System Settings > Display and Monitor > Compositor
     * Try toggling OpenGL to see if it makes a difference.
  9. Clean Plasma Config:
     * As a more drastic step, you could try resetting Plasma configurations: Rename ~/.config/plasma-* and ~/.config/kded* files, then restart the session.
  10. Update Check:
     * Ensure all packages are up to date, especially KDE-related ones.
  11. Strace for System Calls:
     * You could use strace to see what system calls are being made when these apps try to create their tray icons:

` strace -e trace=ipc,desc dropbox`

  12. Compare Running Processes:
     * Compare the list of running KDE/Plasma processes between the working and non-working systems.

Given that it's affecting multiple applications, it's likely an issue with how
the system tray or Status Notifier system is being initialized or configured
in your KDE session. If none of these steps reveal the issue, you might want
to consider filing a bug report with the KDE team, providing logs and details
about your system configuration.

BvD

You're a great help! On the flakey system, the Status Notifier Watcher is not
running.

Claude.ai

Thank you for the kind words! I'm glad I could help. Your discovery that the
Status Notifier Watcher is not running on the problematic system is a
significant finding. This explains why multiple applications are failing to
appear in the system tray. Let's focus on resolving this issue:

  1. Manual Start: First, try to start the Status Notifier Watcher manually:

` /usr/lib/kf5/statusnotifierwatcher`

(The exact path might vary depending on your distribution) If this works, the
icons should appear. However, this is just a temporary solution.

  2. Autostart Entry: Check if there's an autostart entry for the Status Notifier Watcher:
     * Look in ~/.config/autostart/ and /etc/xdg/autostart/ for a .desktop file related to the Status Notifier Watcher.
  3. Plasma Startup Script: Investigate the Plasma startup scripts:
     * Check /usr/share/plasma/startup/ for any scripts that should be starting the watcher.
  4. System Services: Verify if it's supposed to be started as a system service:

` systemctl --user list-units | grep -i notifier`

  5. KDE Config: Look for any KDE configuration files that might be preventing the watcher from starting:
     * Check ~/.config/kded5rc or similar files for any relevant entries.
  6. Reinstall Relevant Packages: Try reinstalling the package that provides the Status Notifier Watcher:
     * On Ubuntu/Debian: ` sudo apt install --reinstall plasma-workspace`
     * On Arch: ` sudo pacman -S plasma-workspace` (Adjust for your specific distribution)
  7. KWin Scripts: Check if there are any KWin scripts that might be interfering:
     * System Settings > Window Management > KWin Scripts
  8. Plasma Safe Mode: Try starting Plasma in safe mode to see if the issue persists:
     * Log out, and from the login screen, look for an option to start a "Plasma Safe Mode" session.
  9. DBus Configuration: Verify that the D-Bus configuration is correct:
     * Check /etc/dbus-1/system.d/ and /usr/share/dbus-1/system.d/ for any misconfigured files.
  10. Permissions: Ensure that your user has the correct permissions to start the watcher:
     * Check ~/.xsession-errors for any permission-related errors.
  11. Startup Debugging: You can try to debug the Plasma startup process:
     * Set the environment variable ` PLASMA_DEBUG=1` before starting your session.
     * Check the output in ~/.xsession-errors or through ` journalctl`.

After trying these steps, if you're still unable to get the Status Notifier
Watcher running automatically, it might be worth filing a bug report with your
distribution or the KDE team, as this seems to be a system-specific issue
that's preventing a core component from starting correctly.

Let me know if you need any clarification on these steps or if you discover
any new information while troubleshooting!

BvD

would you happen to know what ` kf6-kded` is ? That is not installed on the
problem system, but is on the good systems.

Claude.ai

Excellent observation! You've identified a crucial piece of the puzzle. `
kf6-kded` is indeed very important for the proper functioning of KDE Plasma 6.

` kf6-kded` is the KDE Daemon for KDE Frameworks 6. Here's what you need to
know about it:

  1. Purpose:
     * KDED (KDE Daemon) is a core service in KDE that runs in the background.
     * It's responsible for loading and managing various modules that provide functionality to the KDE desktop environment.
  2. Functionality:
     * It handles things like hardware detection, power management, and yes, the Status Notifier system.
     * Many KDE services rely on KDED to function properly.
  3. Relation to System Tray:
     * The Status Notifier Watcher, which is crucial for the system tray functionality, is typically managed by KDED.
  4. KF6 Specificity:
     * The "kf6" prefix indicates that this is the version for KDE Frameworks 6, which aligns with your Plasma 6 environment.

Given that this package is missing on your problem system but present on the
working systems, it's highly likely that this is the root cause of your system
tray issues.

To resolve this:

  1. Install the package:
     * On most systems, you can install it with your package manager. For example:
       * On Arch-based systems: ` sudo pacman -S kf6-kded`
       * On Fedora: ` sudo dnf install kf6-kded`
       * On Ubuntu/Debian-based systems, the package name might be slightly different, perhaps ` libkf6daemon-dev` or similar.
  2. After installation:
     * Restart your KDE session or reboot your system.
  3. Verify installation:
     * After restarting, check if the Status Notifier Watcher is now running.
     * Your system tray icons (including Owncloud and Dropbox) should now appear.

This discovery is significant because it points to a potential issue with your
system's KDE installation or upgrade process. Once you've installed `
kf6-kded` and confirmed that it resolves the issue, you might want to:

  1. Check for other missing KDE/Plasma packages.
  2. Review your system's package management logs to see if there were any issues during previous updates or installations.
  3. Consider running a full system update to ensure all packages are at their correct versions.

Great job on identifying this key difference between your systems! This kind
of systematic comparison is often the key to solving tricky configuration
issues.

BvD

Ah, the bad system has kf5-kded installed, probably something wrong with the
packaging. I'm going to check it...


Claude.ai

Excellent catch! You've identified a crucial discrepancy that's likely at the
heart of your issue. This situation highlights a common problem that can occur
during major version upgrades or when mixing packages from different versions.
Let's break this down:

  1. Version Mismatch:
     * Your problematic system has ` kf5-kded` (KDE Frameworks 5) installed instead of ` kf6-kded` (KDE Frameworks 6).
     * This mismatch explains why the Status Notifier Watcher and other KDE 6 components aren't functioning correctly.
  2. Potential Causes:
     * Incomplete upgrade: The system might have been partially upgraded from KDE 5 to KDE 6.
     * Package conflicts: The package manager might have failed to replace KF5 packages with their KF6 counterparts.
     * Repository issues: The system might be pulling packages from incompatible repositories.
  3. Steps to Resolve: a. Remove KF5 version:
     * Uninstall the KF5 version: ` sudo [your package manager] remove kf5-kded`
b. Install KF6 version:

     * Install the KF6 version: ` sudo [your package manager] install kf6-kded`
c. Check for other KF5 packages:

     * Look for other KF5 packages that should be upgraded to KF6: ` sudo [your package manager] list installed | grep kf5`
d. Full system upgrade:

     * Perform a full system upgrade to ensure all packages are at the correct version.
  4. Verify Repository Configuration:
     * Ensure your package manager is configured to use the correct repositories for KDE Plasma 6.
  5. Check for Held Packages:
     * Some package managers allow holding packages at specific versions. Check if any KDE packages are being held back.
  6. Review Upgrade Logs:
     * Look through your system's upgrade logs to see if there were any errors or warnings during the KDE 6 upgrade process.
  7. Consider a Clean Install:
     * If you encounter numerous inconsistencies, it might be faster and more reliable to perform a clean installation of your distribution with KDE Plasma 6.
  8. Report the Issue:
     * Consider reporting this packaging issue to your distribution's maintainers. It could help prevent similar problems for other users.

After making these changes, restart your KDE session or reboot your system.
This should resolve the system tray issues and potentially other KDE-related
problems you might have been experiencing.

Your astute observation about the KF5 vs KF6 discrepancy is exactly the kind
of detail that often leads to solving complex system issues. Great
troubleshooting!